Mutori wenhau Jesu Bastante, Co-muvambi uye iyezvino mupepeti-mukuru weReligión Digital, iyo inotungamira pasi rose ruzivo rwezvemagariro nechitendero muSpanish, yakawana mukana wekuita chiitiko. pakadzika kubvunzana naBaba Manuel Corral, Munyori weInstitutional Relations weArchbishopric weMexico.
Muhurukuro huru iyi inotora maminitsi anopfuura makumi maviri nemashanu, Baba Corral vanoongorora naBastante mamiriro ezvinhu eChechi yeRoma muMexico, matambudziko airi kusangana nawo, uye kunyanya kuvandudzwa kuri kukurudzirwa naCardinal Carlos Aguiar ari mukuru wearchdiocese.
Inhaurirano inobata nyaya dzinonakidza dzakaita sehukama pakati peChechi nehurumende yaLópez Obrador, kusatendeseka kwenharaunda yeMexico, kukanganisa kwemapoka eCatholic Conservative, denda uye vaccin, uye chikumbiro chaLópez Obrador cheSpain uye Church kukumbira ruregerero nekukunda.
Asi pamusoro pezvose, ibvunzurudzo inotibvumira kutarisa nzira yekuchinja iyo Chechi yeKaturike muMexico iri kuitika, nerubatsiro rwebhishopi mukuru ari pedyo naPapa Francis, Carlos Aguiar. Chechi inoda kuve pedyo nevanhu, inobatikana uye ine vanhu vakadzidza.
Pazasi pane chinyorwa chizere chehurukuro iyi inofadza uye inodzidzisa.
Hurukuro pa12.09.2021
Jesús Bastante: Manuel Corral muSpanish Verbite anonamata, asi ane moyo wekuMexico, uyo akapedza hafu yezana ramakore kunze kwenyika achishandira Chechi iri kufamba. Zvino, seMunyori weInstitutional Relations weArchbishopric weMexico.
“MuMexico vanonditi gachupín nokuti ndine matauriro echiSpanish, uye muSpain vanoti ndine matauriro echiMexico,” anotsanangura kudaro achiseka. Tine mutoro wehukama pakati peArchbishopric nehurumende yeLópez Obrador, isu tinoongorora naManuel mamiriro azvino eChechi munyika, kusatendeseka, kukanganisa kwemapoka e-ultra-Catholic uye mafambiro ekurwisa vaccine.
Jesús Bastante: Wakaberekerwa mumusha muZamora.
Baba Manuel Corral: Muguta diki muZamora, pamuganhu nePortugal: Fornillos. Iri mumupata werwizi rweDuero uye vanogadzira machizi akanaka kwazvo uye waini yakanaka kwazvo ipapo. Amai vangu, vane makore 92, vachiri kugara ikoko uye ndichangobva kuvashanyira. Ndava pano kwemavhiki matatu uye ndagadzirira kudzokera kuMexico.
Jesús Bastante: Une chirevo chekuMexico.
Baba Manuel Corral: MuMexico vanondidaidza kuti gachupín nekuti ndine matauriro echiSpanish, uye kuSpain vanoti ndine matauriro echiMexico (anoseka).
Jesús Bastante: Manuel ndiye Munyori weMexico weInstitutional Relations 'ad yekuwedzera'. Chinzvimbo chakadaro chinosanganisirei muarchdiocese yakakura kudai?
Baba Manuel Corral: Archbishop Carlos Aguiar, sezvo aive muEpiscopal Conference yeMexico semunyori mukuru, akagadziridza secretariat uye akafunga kuti vanyori vaviri vaidikanwa, saka 'kuwedzera'; mumwe wokutarisira nhau dzezuva nezuva dzedhiocese, (pano pana Baba García wenhau dzomukati), uye ini ndichibetserwa naBaba Quintero, vanozivikanwa nemagazini ino, weMercedarian, nokuda kwoukama hwesangano.
Izvi zvinosanganisirei? Muhukama hwemasangano panofanirwa kugara paine nhaurirano. Uye nhaurirano iyoyo inofanira kuva yechokwadi nekuti kana tikasabata nyaya dzinobata vanhu, panobuda chinhambwe. Saka unoda mumwe munhu kuti agadzirise matambudziko ezuva nezuva echinhu chimwe nechimwe.
Jesús Bastante: Hukama uhwu naLópez Obrador hwaizovei? Nehurumende?
Baba Manuel Corral: Pakutanga yaive nhaurirano… yekusavimbana, ndaizoti.
Jesu Bastante: Nekusavimbana?
Baba Manuel Corral: Zvakare. Chinoitika ndechekuti López Obrador, mugwara rake rose (haazvioni sewechitendero chimwe kana chimwe), anoti ndewechitendero chepasi rose. Mamwe mabhishopi haana kuzvinzwisisa, achitaura kuti akanga ari muPurotesitendi, uye ukama hwacho hwakanga husiri nyore. Asi kusvika pakuita nhaurirano naye, nevashandi vake uye nevanyori vehurumende, zvakafambisa kuwirirana uye, pamusoro pezvose, kuti kusazivana uye kusavimbana kwakaderedzwa. Isu hatisati tine hukama hwezana muzana, asi zvinokwanisika kushanda naye. Chokwadi, tiri kushanda naye panyaya dzine chokuita nesu tose; nyaya youpenyu, somuenzaniso, yaanoitira hanya zvikuru zviri kuitika.
Jesús Bastante: Hukama hwechechi nenyika muMexico? Nokuti pano, semuenzaniso, tine zvibvumirano zvine makore makumi mana uye zvinotungamirira zvinhu zvose: rubatsiro muHondo, muzvipatara, zvikoro, nyaya dzemutemo? Zvishoma zvezvose.
Baba Manuel Corral: Sezvaunoziva, muMexico tangova nemakore 30 tiripo kubvira pakatangwa ukama uhwu pakati peHurumende yeMexico neVatican State iyo Chechi inozivikanwa nayo sesangano rechitendero. Angove makore makumi maviri nemapfumbamwe uye zvanga zvisiri nyore. MuMexico hatina zana kubva muzana rusununguko rwechitendero nekuti Mutemo weMasangano Ezvitendero uchiri wakanangana nekutonga, sokunge zvakadaro. Kuchengeta kudzora kuti mushumiri wekunamata ndiani, wemvumo yeizvi, uye dzimwe nguva kunewo kumwe kuenzanisira, nokuti kunofungidzirwa kuti kuti chechi ikwanise kuita mudungwe, inofanira kukumbira mvumo kune zviremera. . Muzvikoro zvehurumende, somuenzaniso, rudzidziso harugoni kudzidziswa, uyewo harugoni kudzidziswa muzvikoro zvavanhu. Asi inoteedzerwa pasi pemamwe mazita; Religious Humanism, etc. Saka pane kuzivikanwa, hongu, asi hapana zvibvumirano.
Jesús Bastante: Hapana rutsigiro.
Baba Manuel Corral: Hapana rutsigiro. Asi tiri kuyedza kutsvaga nzira yekumberi.
Jesús Bastante: Uri kurangarira Bicentenary yeIndependence munyika dzakawanda. Muchirevo chechinyorwa chino, López Obrador akada kuti Chechi neCrown yeSpain vakumbire ruregerero. Izvi zvakagamuchirwa sei neChechi yeMexico?
Baba Manuel Corral: Chechi, zviri pamutemo, haina kumbozvidudza nemashoko aibvunzwa naPresident. Uye apo vatori venhau vakabvunza, akati: "Chechi yakatokumbira ruregerero kuburikidza naPapa Francis". John Paul II akakumbirawo uye handichayeuki kana Benedict akakumbirawo.
Jesús Bastante: Zvinoitwa nemhemberero idzi kufungisisa nezvemugwagwa wakafambwa. Nhoroondo haigoni kunyorwa patsva; tese tinoita chikanganiso, tsika dzese, kuedza kuzvinyora patsva…. Asi iwe unogona chete kuedza kunzwisisa kana kuwana pfungwa dzekufungisisa.
Baba Manuel Corral: Pfungwa yaive yekuti paive nedzimwe nyaya dzakanyanya kukosha dzekutarisisa pane dzakapfuura dzausingachagone kupindira, uye kukumbira ruregerero, izvo zvanga zvatokumbirwa, kwaisazogadzirisa matambudziko akakomba atinawo ikoko. Pakanga pasina mhinduro kumashoko emutungamiri wenyika, kana muepiscopate kana paruzhinji, kubva kuvanhu vemumugwagwa.
Jesús Bastante: Chaive chiratidziro kune International gallery. Cardinal Aguiar aive mumwe wemabhishopi matanhatu nemakadhinari avo, pamwe naPapa Francis, vakarekodha vhidhiyo mukati mesangano rekudaidzira kubayiwa kwepasi rose, vachikurudzira veruzhinji kuti vabatane mukurwisa coronavirus yakatukwa. Denda iri raita kuti timire pamatanho ese. Ndinonzwisisa kuti Kadhinari Aguiar ane chokwadi chekuti isu tese tinofanirwa kubaiwa nhomba uye kuzvichengeta.
Baba Manuel Corral: Kubva panguva yekutanga, hurumende payakaisa danho rekuvhara machechi, aifarira kutevedzera uye kubaiwa. Aivawo mumwe wevakatanga kubaiwa nhomba ndokuzvizivisa. Uye anoramba achiomerera pane zvinodiwa, pese paanova nemukana. Paange ataura paruzhinji, akataridza veruzhinji kuti ndiyo yega nzira yekutiponesa. Nokuti kune simba rakasimba rinopesana nejekiseni kufamba, pamwe nenhema dzose pamusoro payo, uye akatsanangura, achishingaira uye asingaiti, kuti hapana chakaipa nekudzivirira. Ane chokwadi nazvo nokuti inyaya inokosha zvikuru.
Jesús Bastante: Uye kune zvakare anti-vaccine nzvimbo pakati pevafundisi. Kune nyika umo mabhishopi akatofanira kubuda panze ndokuudza vafundisi kuti havagoni kudzivirira zvinzvimbo zvevashori, kuti tiri kuisa upenyu hwevakawanda mungozi, uye pamusoro peupenyu hwose hwevarombo zvikuru. Zvinosuruvarisa, kunyange zvazvo zvirwere izvi zvichibata isu tose, avo vedu vanogara munyika dzine hutano hwakagadzikana tinopinda mazviri nenzira yakasiyana, uye dzimwe nguva hatizvioni.
Baba Manuel Corral: Ndinotenda kuti varombo havasati vawana mukana wekuve nekuumbwa kwatakaita isu tose. Munzvimbo dzakawanda, chimiro chemupristi chinonyatsozivikanwa uye zvaanotaura zvinoremekedzwa zvikuru. Ndosaka apa ndipo pakaitwa kudanwa uye Kadhinari, mumisangano yese yatakaita, zvese nenyama, anosimbirira zvakanyanya panyaya iyi nekuti, chaizvo, vanhu vasina kubaiwa vanozvifumura ivo nevamwe. Saka, isu tinofanirwa kunzvenga ngano idzi, uye zvakanyanya pakati pevamiriri vehutungamiriri, zvese zvechitendero nezvematongerwo enyika. Rangarirai kuti mazuva ekutanga President vedu vaisanyanya kukoshesa nyaya yemajekiseni, zvaiita kuti vanhu vabaye nhomba. Kusvikira nguva yake yasvika. Nhasi, 63% yevanhu muMexico vanobaiwa.
Jesús Bastante: Uyu mufananidzo wakanaka, tichifunga nezvedzimwe nyika muLatin America, Africa neAsia uko kubaiwa kwakadzikira. Ichokwadi kuti, sekutaura kwaPope, tose tinobaiwa nhomba kana kuti hatisi kuzobuda mumamiriro ezvinhu aya.
Baba Manuel Corral: Tinofanira kusimbirira. Chinondibaya mwoyo pamusoro pevanorwisa majekiseni ndechekuti havape nharo. Irondedzero dzisina humbowo.
Jesús Bastante: Kuenderera mberi, mibvunzo miviri mune mumwe: Ungatsanangura sei Chechi muMexico uye ndechipi chirongwa chaunofunga kuti Kadhinari Aguiar anogona kutungamira Chechi yeMexico?
Baba Manuel Corral: Chechi muMexico iri kupinda munguva yekuchinja mukutarisana nedambudziko rechitendero riri kukanganisa mwero wetsika. Nokuti haisi yechitendero chete, asi yemasangano. Masangano ese ari munjodzi. Sezvo mutsara wakakurumbira waRahner unoti: 'kana hukama hwako hwemweya husingakupi simba rekuenderera mberi, chiKristu hachizove'. Ini ndinofunga kuti, kazhinji, mabhishopi anonyatsoziva asi anotya kwazvo kuvhura kune izvo, semuenzaniso, Papa ari kutaura. Chechi ichibuda, zvose izvi.
Jesús Bastante: Kufanana neChechi yeSpain, kwavari kufambira mberi nekuchenjerera nokuti, zvichida, pane kutya kwezvichaitika mberi.
Baba Manuel Corral: Ndiwo mubvunzo: chii chichaitika mberi. Kuti Pope uyu ane hutungamiriri here kana kuti Pope achauya anovhara. Chii chichaitika. Izvo, pamwero mukuru. Asi padanho renzvimbo, Carlos Aguiar ane purojekiti yakakosha, iyo inozivikanwa Pastoral Units. Zvakaitwa naAguiar munharaunda iyi yePastoral Units, izvo zvave kutotanga kushanda, ndezvekubatanidza matunhu akati wandei; vachiri matunhu asi vaprista vanogara pamwe chete munharaunda uye pane kumwe kurongeka. Ivo vanogara mumba mune murongi uye matunhu ane hukama anogovana maitiro zvisinganzwisisiki.
Jesús Bastante: Neimwe nzira iri rubatsiro kune muprista pachake, nokuti imwe yematambudziko ehufundisi iyo Francis anoshora zvakanyanya inouya chaizvo kubva kune iyi yega inogona kuita kuti unzwe wakasiyana, une simba. Uye hazvina kufanana kune vechitendero vakajaira kugara munharaunda uye kugovana.
Baba Manuel Corral: Kuvafundisi vanoumbwa mune dzimwe nguva kwakaoma zvikuru uye Carlos Aguiar anoziva kuti haigoni kumanikidzirwa. Chaakaita, ipapo, kwaiva kukurukura nepwere naavo vaida kugadzira aya mapoka evafundisi. Uye yekutanga kugadzirwa iEpiscopal Unit. Mabhishopu ebetsero, avo vari vashanu, vanogara muimba.
Jesús Bastante: Kutungamira nemuenzaniso.
Baba Manuel Corral: Ndizvozvo. Uye ivo pachavo vanoti zvakanaka kwazvo nekuti vane mukana wekugovana makuseni nekudya, vanosangana uye vanowanawo mukana wekunamata. Ndicho chimwe chezvinhu. Uye chimwe ndechekuti kuumbwa kwevadzidzisi kwakavabvisa muparamende, nevadzidzi vana kana vashanu vanogara muparamende ine mugadziri uye muprista weparish, uye vanofanirwa kuenda kukirasi kuseminari. Uye zvinovamanikidza kuva negore rekutarisana neruzivo rwemafambiro avo ekugadzira; vanofanira kubuda kundoshanda mumakambani. Search. Zvaanoda ndezvekuti pave neruzivo rwechokwadi, kuumbwa kwakasimba kwevaprista vatsva. Kuti vanobatanidza uye vanosangana nematambudziko nevanhu.
Jesús Bastante: Kusangana kwakananga nechokwadi.
Baba Manuel Corral: Uye nerumwe rutivi, zvatichaita kugadzirira kushanya kwehufundisi kumaparishi kuitira kuti vose vanouya kukereke vatore chikamu nenzira yekubvumirana. Zvakatisungira isu tose, sezvatakanga tatoita muEpiscopal Conference, nemamwe maturusi kuitira kuti munhu wese ape pfungwa dzake uye atore chikamu. Ndicho chimiro. Uye chimwe chezvaakaita ndechekutarisa manejimendi, kuvandudza manejimendi ezviwanikwa.
Jesús Bastante: Zvakangofanana nemuenzaniso wekuvandudzwa kweCuria kuri kuitwa muRoma. Ini ndinofunga kuti mune izvi nezvimwe zvinhu, Aguiar naFrancisco vari kuwirirana zvakanyanya.
Baba Manuel Corral: Ndinonzwa sokuti vanogarotaura. Saka ari kuisa hutungamiriri pakati kuitira kuti maParish ashande pamwe chete. Zvino sezvo pasina rubatsiro rwehurumende kuChurch ikoko, akagadzira portal miofrenda.com yekuti kana vanhu vakakumbira service yakaita seyemuchato, pasave necharge, asi unongoita donation ipapo. Uye akaitawo chimwe chinhu chakanaka zvikuru: kusikwa kwemadhiocese matatu akatenderedza guta, aive mamirioni gumi, achisiya archdiocese aine mamirioni mashanu nehafu uye mamwe madhiocese, ayo ane hunhu hwenzvimbo imwe neimwe, ina bhishopi wavo. kushumirwa zviri nani. Izvi zvakabatsirawo. Uye mukati mearchdiocese pachayo, nzvimbo dzakagadziridzwa. Kune nzvimbo nomwe uye pamusoro peimwe neimwe pane mufundisi ari muprista. Kushandisa chimiro ichi kuri nyore uye, sezvaanoti: "Ndiri kusiya pasi kune ani nani anouya shure kwangu".
Jesús Bastante: Chimwe chakafanana naFrancis, ndine chokwadi chekuti kuita shanduko dzese idzi hakusi nyore, sezviri kuitika kuBergoglio, nekuti chiitiko ichi chiri kukonzera matambudziko uye chinoita kuti vavengi kana hunhu hubude vasingabvumirani zvachose. .
Baba Manuel Corral: Sezvimwe zvese. Ndinotenda kuti dambudziko rakakura rinouya kana pfungwa dzakasiyana dzikasatariswa. Uye sezvakangoita kwose kwose, muChechi pachayo. Tinozviona naPope Francis, avo vanogara vachitsvaga nhaurirano nevanhu nekuti havatyi kunetsana. Carlos Aguiar akatsvagawo nhaurirano naye, ngatitii, kana uchida, vadzivisi vasingabvumirani naye nokuti vakatora nzira yakasiyana zvikuru. Vekutanga, vaprisita vanga vari muparamende kwemakore makumi matatu. Kune vanopikisa, hongu, vose vari vaviri vaprista venyika nevechitendero. Nekuti vechitendero vane hunhu hwavo uye kana iri nyaya yekupa, vanofunga kuti vari kutorerwa. Tinokanganwa kuti tiri vatariri chete. Uye, mukati mevadzivisi ava, panewo mapoka emapoka. Kune mapoka anopikisa munhu anouya achimutorera chimiro uye mamwe maropafadzo aaimbova nawo.
Jesús Bastante: Zviri kuitika muMexico, zviri kuitikawo muMadrid uye muRome, zviri pachena. Asi munhu anogona kutsoropodza nekupikisana nazvo; ndirwo rusununguko rwavana vaMwari. Mhosva umo mubvunzo ndewekuenda nhanho mberi uye kutsanangura mazano, muzviitiko zvakawanda kuburikidza, anenge, nzanga dzakavanzika kana network yakanyarara yekupwanya.
Baba Manuel Corral: Masangano akavanzika aya aunotaura, aripo uye anoshandisa mapoka aya kuparadza zvirongwa zviri kufambira mberi, havasati vanzwisisa kuti nhasi vechidiki, mhuri uye vakaroorana vari kubva muChechi. Isu tine kuderera kwakanyanya kwemichato muMexico, kwete chete nekuda kwedenda. Havana kunzwisisa kuti tiri munguva yechinjo uye, sokutaura kunoita José María Castillo, tinofanira kubva parudzidziso rwetembere kuenda kurudzidziso rwouhama hwaJesu. Pasina kusiya chinhu uye asina kusiya chimwe. Asi kumapoka aya, andisingabvumirani zvachose nawo, kushandisa simba ravo uye mazano avo kusvibisa kana kusvibisa munhu, somuenzaniso nyaya yaCarlos Aguiar, pasina nharo kana chokwadi. Kungotaura nekuda kutaura… Hazvina musoro. Ndasangana nevanhu vandati kwavari: ndipei humbowo hwekuti zvamunotaura ndezvechokwadi. Uye havazivi. Ndinonzwisisa kuti maitiro aya anobva mukutya kurasikirwa nechinzvimbo; ropafadzo idzi uye pesvedzero dzavaiva nadzo.
Jesús Bastante: Sezvatakanga tichitaura nezvazvo kare, nekuda kwenyaya yejekiseni, tiri munharaunda yekurwisa vanhu kuitira kuchengetedza ropafadzo kana kuti tirambe tiri mukuzivikanwa. Zvinosuwisa. Zvinotonyanya kusuwa kuti zvinoitika pakati pedu isu vanozviti maKristu uye vanoedza kuendesa mberi evhangeri yaJesu.
Pakupedzisira, Manuel, iChechi ipi yaunorota?
Baba Manuel Corral: Ndinorota Chechi, kutanga, yevanhu vakaumbwa uye vane ruzivo. Nekuti tese tine ruzivo, asi dzimwe nguva hatina formation. Kana ndichiti kuumbwa, ndinoreva kuziva kuzvipira; kuti tiri muupenyu huno mukupfuura uye, sezvandinowanzotaura kuvanhu: “zuva iro Mwari achakudana, achakubvunza kana wakanga uchifara kana kuti usingafari. Dai hupenyu hwako hwaive nechinangwa kana kwete". Ini ndinotenda kuti isu tinofanirwa kusimudzira Chechi isiri yevafundisi uye kuti muprista ndiye mudziyo wekufambisa nzira, nhaurirano. Nokuda kwechikonzero ichi, muprista anofanira kuva murume akadzidziswa uye ane ruzivo. Asi vakadzidziswa muzvinhu zvitsva zvenyika. Ndinorota Chechi rimwe zuva richava rakadzika uye rinopfuura tsika kuti rive Chechi yevanhu. Pedyo nematambudziko anosangana nemhuri, vechidiki, vashandi… Chechi yakapinzwa munyama munyika yatinogara. Uye nokuda kweizvi tinoda sangano risiri iro chinangwa, asi chiridzwa 'che'. Uye vevanhu vakadzidziswa; kwete kuti vanofanira kuva vadzidzi vebhaibheri, asi kuti vanofanira kuva nechekuita mundima. Saka iyi kongiresi yakaitika pano uye zvakataurwa naJosé Antonio Rosa: "hatidi vezvematongerwo enyika veKatorike, asi maCatholic mune zvematongerwo enyika uye munharaunda". Ndiwo mubvunzo. Ndizvo zvandinoona seChechi yakaumbwa.
Jesu Bastante: Mateo 25: Matarenda. Ini ndinofunga zvakakoshawo kuti tinzwisise Francis uye kunzwisisa kuti, mumaonero angu, chii chinofanira kunge chiri basa revateveri vaJesu munharaunda.
Baba Manuel Corral: Ndizvozvo.
Jesús Bastante: Manuel, zvave zvichifadza kutaura newe, ticharamba tichitaura nekushanda.
Baba Manuel Corral: Kunakidzwa kukuonana newe.
