Usihlalo weManyano yeHlabathi yamakholwa amadala uLeonid Sevastianov kutshanje wathi uPapa uFrancis uzimisele ukutyelela eMoscow - emva koko uKyiv. Simeme uLeonid Sevastianov ukuba ahlomle ngokubanzi kule meko kunye nobudlelwane bakhe noPapa ngokubanzi.
I-JLB: Iingxelo zakho malunga nesikhundla sikaPapa uFrancis kwimfazwe yaseUkraine zihlala zivela kumajelo eendaba, kwaye enyanisweni, usebenza njengomlamli woluntu wePapa. Sifunda okungakumbi ngesikhundla sakhe nezicwangciso zakhe kuwe kunakuye. Ngaba ugunyaziswe nguBawo Oyingcwele ukuba wenze amagqabaza anjalo?
LS: Usapho lwam lusazi uPopu iminyaka elishumi. Ukwazana kwethu naye kwenzeka kwimeko yokulungiselela ikonsathi yoxolo eSiriya eVatican ngo-10. Umfazi wam Svetlana Kasyan, imvumi yeopera, yaba nenxaxheba kwikonsathi eyayiqhutywa eyedwa. Mna ngokwam ndajongana nemiba yentlangano. Ukusukela ngoko, uxolo, uxolo yeyona nto isekelwe kuyo ubudlelwane bethu noPopu. Ukongezelela, mna nomfazi wam siye sabandakanyeka ngokukhutheleyo kwi- Ukuqhubeka intshukumo. Ngo-2015, senze i Gcina iSiseko soBomi kunye, esebenzela ukukhusela isidima namalungelo abantwana abangekazalwa. Ngenxa yemisebenzi yakhe, uSvetlana wanyuselwa nguPopu uFrancis kwisikhundla sokuba nguDame weOrder yaseSt. Mna nomfazi wam sibuxabisa kakhulu ubuhlobo bethu noPopu Francis sada sathiya unyana wethu osandul’ ukuzalwa ngegama lakhe. Ukuqala kwemfazwe, uPopu wandinika intobelo yokusebenza ngenjongo yoxolo. Ndingunozakuzaku wakhe wokukhuthaza uxolo. Uyazi ukuba uPope ngumJesuit. Ubumoya bamaJesuit bugxininisa indima yomntu ngamnye, indoda encinane, ukuzimela kwakhe ekuhambiseleni phambili iVangeli ehlabathini lonke. UPapa uFrancis, ndicinga ukuba, uyandithemba, eqonda ukuba andinayo nayiphi na i-skeletons kwi-closet, kwaye ukukhuthaza kwam kuye kucacile kwaye kucacile. UPapa undixelele ukuba wayekulungele naliphi na inyathelo ukuze uxolo lulawule eYurophu. Kuye, uhambo oluya eRashiya naseUkraine lunomqondiso omkhulu. Uqinisekile ukuba olu hambo luya kunceda iUkraine neRashiya ukuba zivumelane ngehlabathi elinobulungisa kumntu wonke.
I-JLB: Ngexesha lokuqhankqalaza eBelarus, uxhasa ngokungathandabuzekiyo abantu baseBelarusian kumzabalazo woxolo, inkululeko kunye nobulungisa. Licala likabani inyaniso kwimfazwe yaseRashiya eUkraine ngoku? Ucinga ukuba amabango ommandla waseRashiya afanelekile kangakanani malunga ne-Ukraine, kubandakanywa ngokubhekiselele kwi-Peninsula yaseCrimea?
LS: Kwiminyaka embalwa edlulileyo, bendiza kuzama ukuphendula umbuzo wakho ngendlela ongathanda ukuyiva ngayo impendulo yam. Kodwa ulwalamano lwam noPopu Francis lwandinceda ukuba ndiziqonde njengomKristu, okanye, ukuba uyathanda, ukuqonda ubuKristu ngokwabo. Ndiza kukuphendula ngombuzo kumbuzo othi: liphi icala uPopu malunga nomba wokutshatyalaliswa kwamaPapa, malunga nomba wokunqotshwa kweRoma nguGaribaldi noVictor Emmanuel? Okanye ngaba uYesu Kristu nompostile uPetros babemi kweliphi icala ngokuphathelele ukuwa kweYerusalem ngonyaka wama-70? Inqaku lam lelokuba ubuKristu bunjalo abuyiphenduli imibuzo ye-geopolitics. Kunoko, asibobuchule bobuKristu. Ukujonga ubuKristu njengokuthand’ izwe akuyonxalenye yevangeli. Andithi umntu makangathand’ izwe, nditsho nje ukuba inkolo yobuKrestu abunakutsaleleka kumbandela wobuzwe nezilangazelelo zesizwe. UbuKristu busebenza ngemibuzo engunaphakade - nangona uMhlaba ngokwawo kunye nesixokelelwano selanga asiyi kubakho. Ngoko ke, abaninzi abamqondi uPopu, bafuna ukumbona njengosopolitiki, njengoko abaninzi bexesha lakhe babona kuKristu. Bephoxekile nguYe njengompolitiki, abanye abantu bayamngcatsha, abanye bayamkhanyela, ukanti abanye bakulungele ukumbethelela. Makhe sijonge uPope njengomshumayeli weVangeli, hayi njengosopolitiki.
[ULeonid Sevastianov sele enike uluvo lwakhe malunga nemfazwe, echaza ukuba ngokwembono yobuKristu, ukubuxhasa bubuwexuki. Kwaye nge-30 ka-Agasti 2022, iVatican yakhupha ingxelo eyayiqulethe oku: “Ngokuphathelele imfazwe enkulu yaseUkraine eyaqalwa yiRussian Federation, ungenelelo lukaPopu uFrancis lucace gca yaye alugungqi ekuyigwebeni njengelingekho sikweni ngokokuziphatha, elingamkelekanga, elikhohlakeleyo, elingenangqiqo, elizotheyo nelingcolileyo.”]
I-JLB: Unika amagqabantshintshi rhoqo kwi-TASS, ebonwa phesheya njengomnye wemilomo yepropaganda yaseKremlin. Kutheni usebenzisana nale midiya?
LS: Kukho ii-arhente zeendaba ezi-3 kuphela eRashiya: TASS, RIA Novosti kunye ne-Interfax. Akukho abanye. Andinakuthwala uxanduva kwabanye. Ndiyakwazi ukuziphendulela qha. Kuphela ngenxa yokuba akukho mpembelelo yezopolitiko kunye neepropaganda zezopolitiko kumazwi am.
JLB: Uyayazi Patriarch Kirill ixesha elide, okoko wayeyiMetropolitan yaseSmolensk. Buthini ubuhlobo bakho naye ngoku? Ungathini malunga nebinzana likaPapa uFrancis ukuba uyinkwenkwe yesibingelelo sikaPutin? Buphi ubudlelwane bakho noMetropolitan Hilarion kunye nentloko entsha ye-DECR Vladika Anthony (Sevryuk) ngoku? Ngaba uhlala unxibelelana nabo?
LS: Ndamazi uPatriarch Kirill ukususela ngowe-1995. Ndathunyelwa nguMetropolitan Alimpiy Gusev, usihlalo weRussian Old Believers Orthodox Church, ukuya kufunda kwiMoscow Theological Seminary ngeMetropolitan Kirill. Kwangaxeshanye, uPatriarch wandithumela ukuba ndiye kufunda eRome kwiYunivesithi yaseGregorian, ndaya apho ngowe-1999 ndidlula kwindawo yeemonki eBose, ekumantla eItali. Ndafunda eRome ngemali yala mmandla kanye phantsi kweliso lenkokeli yawo uEnzo Bianchi. Emva koko ndaqhubeka nezifundo zam kwiYunivesithi yaseGeorgetown eWashington ngenkxaso-mali yokufunda evela kwiAmerican Bradley Foundation. Ndasebenza kwiYunivesithi yaseGeorgetown njengomfundisi, kwanakwiBhanki yehlabathi. Ukubuyela kwam eMoscow ngowama-2004, ndandingafuni ukusebenzela iSebe Lemicimbi Yangaphandle yaseMoscow Patriarchate (DECR). Ngesi siseko, sasinokungaqondani kunye noMetropolitan Kirill, owathi emva koko wakhokela esi sakhiwo, apho, umntu anokuthi, aqhubekile nanamhlanje (ukungaqondi kakuhle). Ngo-2009, emva konyulo luka-Metropolitan Kirill njengo-Patriarch kunye nokuqeshwa kuka-Metropolitan Hilarion (Alfeev) njengosihlalo we-DECR, ndadala kwaye ndakhokela uGregory uMseko wezakwalizwi, eyayixhasa imisebenzi ye-DECR kunye nokudalwa kunye nokubuyiselwa kwezakhiwo kunye neendawo, ze-All-Church postgraduate and doctoral studies, kunye nemisebenzi yayo yemihla ngemihla. Ngenxa yokuba andizange ndixhase ukuqhawuka kobudlelwane kunye neecawe zamaGrike ngo-2018 kwaye ndandicaphukile ngenxa yesimo sengqondo esingafanelekanga sePatriarchate yaseMoscow ngokubhekiselele kumakholwa amadala, inkxaso-mali yamiswa kwicala lethu, kwaye ndasishiya isiseko. Ngo-2018, iNkongolo yeHlabathi yamakholwa amadala kuphela kwimbali yenzeka, apho ndabonisa khona umbono weManyano yeHlabathi. Le ngcamango yamkelwa yiCongress, kwaye ngo-2019 ndadala umbutho we IManyano yeHlabathi yamakholwa amadala. Ukusukela ngoko, ngaphakathi kwesakhelo salo mbutho, ndiye ndabandakanyeka ekukhuseleni nasekukhuthazeni amakholwa amadala ehlabathi. Ndikwabandakanyeke kakhulu eRashiya ekukhuthazeni inkululeko yonqulo kubo bonke abantu basekhaya. Ngokuphathelele uVladyka Anthony (Sevryuk), intloko entsha ye-DECR, ndiyamazi kakuhle, ukususela kwixesha apho wayesengumfundi. Andikwazi ukuthetha nantoni na embi ngaye. Ndiyamazi kuphela kwicala elingcono. Akazange enze nto imbi kum okanye nakubani na endimaziyo.
JLB: Kutheni le nto uPopu ezimisele ukutyelela eMoscow kuqala, hayi iKyiv? Ngaba uzame ukuxoxa naye ngokuza kuqala eKyiv, kwaye kuphela emva koko uhambisa isikhundla sabasemagunyeni baseUkraine kwiKremlin, kwaye kungekhona ngokuphambene?
LS: Ndicinga ukuba kuPapa umyalelo wokutyelela awubalulekanga kakhulu: ufuna nje ukudibanisa ukutyelela kwiinqununu ezimbini ngaphakathi kwesakhelo sohambo olunye. Oko kukuthi, ukuya e-Ukraine naseRashiya, nokuba ungena eRashiya ukusuka kwintsimi yase-Ukraine okanye, ngokuchaseneyo, ukuya e-Ukraine ukusuka kwintsimi yaseRashiya, oku akubalulekanga kuye. Kubalulekile ukuba utyelelo olubini lube yinxalenye yohambo olufanayo ukuze kugxininiswe ukugcinwa koxolo kunye nobume bobuntu bohambo. Ndicinga ukuba amaRashiya akayi kukhubeka xa ehamba eRashiya esuka eUkraine.
JLB: Ingaba uPope umamela kangakanani uluvo lwakho? Ibaluleke kangakanani kuye?
LS: UPopu umamela naluphi na uluvo. Kwaye kuye, umntu omncinci, kubaluleke kakhulu uluvo lwakhe. Oku ndikubonile ngokwam amava. Uluvo lwam kuye, ndiqinisekile ngokuqinisekileyo ngale nto, ayibalulekanga ngaphezu koluvo lwabantu base-Ukrainian okanye abo baseBelarus anxibelelana nabo.
JLB: Umhlambi waseUkraine uphendula kabuhlungu kakhulu kumazwi kunye nezenzo zikaPopu, ukholelwa ukuba wenza emva komgaqo-nkqubo weKremlin. Ngaba upopu uyasibona isoyikiso sokuphulukana nomhlambi waseUkraine ngokudlala ngothando neMoscow?
LS: Ngokuphathelele oko kubizwa ngokuba “kukuncwasa” kukaPopu, ndingathanda ukukukhumbuza kwakhona ukuba uPopu uthetha ngeVangeli, hayi ezopolitiko. Uyakhumbula ukuba abafundi beza njani kuKristu bamxelela ukuba abaninzi babemkile kuYe ngenxa yamazwi Akhe angachanekanga ngokwezopolitiko? Wababuza ke uKristu, wathi, Nani, anifuni ukundishiya na? Kwaye kungelo xesha awathi uPetros waphendula wathi abanandawo yokuya, ngokuba unguKristu. UPope uthetha ngeVangeli. Kwaye yeyawo wonke umntu, amaRussia nama-Ukrainian. UKristu exhonywe emnqamlezweni, kwaye ekunene nangasekhohlo Kwakhe yayingamasela. Kodwa omnye wathi ufuna ukuba kunye noKristu, waza omnye wathi akafuni. Nali ibali malunga noPopu. UPapa akanakuthelekiswa noGeorge Washington, abazalwana bakaMaccabee, iNkosana uVladimir, uMonomakh okanye uKumkani uStanislaus. UPope unokuthelekiswa noKristu kuphela. Kwaye ukubuza ukuba isimilo saKhe siyahambelana na noKristu okanye hayi, ukubuza umbuzo, uKrestu ebeya kwenza ntoni endaweni yakhe. Asibantu abaphilileyo abafuna ugqirha, kodwa abagulayo. IVangeli yonke imalunga nayo!
JLB: Uyavumelana nengxelo kaPopu yokuba umfi uDaria Dugina ulixhoba elimsulwa lemfazwe? Ngaba ubumazi uDaria xa wayelirhamente lenye yeecawa zeCawa yobuOthodoki YaseRashiya? Kwenzeka njani ukuba abe ngomnye wabasasazi bemfazwe?
LS: Yazi ndingathanda ukuphendula amazwi angoDaria ngentetho kaGodfather kumngcwabi, owayeze kucela uthixo ukuba abulale izigebenga ezidlwengule intombi yakhe. Umngcwabi wathi okusesikweni kuya kwenziwa. U-Godfather wabuza: ngaba kulungile ukubulala abo bangabulalanga mntu? KwaneTestamente eNdala yayinomgaqo othi tit-for-tat. UDaria akazange abulale mntu, akazange athathe inxaxheba kwimfazwe kumgca ongaphambili. Ngoko ke, ukufa kwakhe akukho sikweni. Ngale ngqiqo, ulixhoba elimsulwa lemfazwe. Yiloo nto eyathethwa nguPopu. Bendingamazi uDaria. Ngaphambi kokufa kwakhe, bambalwa kakhulu abantu ababemazi. Wayengenayo nayiphi na impembelelo ebalulekileyo kwiingcamango zaseRashiya.
