Usihlalo weNyunyana Yomhlaba Yamakholwa Akudala uLeonid Sevastianov usanda kuthi uPapa uFrancis uhlose ukuvakashela eMoscow - bese kuba yi-Kyiv. Simeme uLeonid Sevastianov ukuthi aphawule kabanzi ngaleli cala nangobudlelwano bakhe noPapa ngokujwayelekile.
JLB: Izitatimende zakho mayelana nesikhundla sikaPapa uFrancis ngempi yase-Ukraine zivame ukuvela kwabezindaba, futhi empeleni, usebenza njengomlamuleli womphakathi kaPapa. Sifunda okwengeziwe ngesikhundla nezinhlelo zakhe kuwena kunakuye. Ingabe ugunyazwe uBaba Ongcwele ukuba ukhulume kanjalo?
LS: Umndeni wami usuneminyaka engu-10 wazana noPhapha. Ukujwayelana kwethu naye kwenzeka esimweni sokuhlela ikhonsathi yokuthula eSyria eVatican ngo-2013. Umkami Svetlana Kasyan, umculi we-opera, wahlanganyela ekhonsathini ngohlelo oluhamba yedwa. Mina ngokwami ngabhekana nezindaba zenhlangano. Kusukela lapho, ukuthula, ukwenza ukuthula yikho kanye ubuhlobo bethu noPapa obusekelwe kukho. Ngaphezu kwalokho, mina nomkami siye sahlanganyela ngenkuthalo kulo mdlalo kuchuma ukunyakaza. Ngo-2015, sakha i- Save Life Together Foundation, esebenzela ukuvikela isithunzi namalungelo ezingane ezingakazalwa. Ngenxa yemisebenzi yakhe, uSvetlana wakhushulelwa uPapa Francis esikhundleni sokuba uDame of the Order of St. Sylvester. Mina nomkami sibazisa kakhulu ubuhlobo bethu noPapa Francis futhi saze saqamba indodana yethu esanda kuzalwa ngaye. Lapho impi iqala, uPapa wanginikeza ukulalela ukuze ngisebenzele ukuthula. Ngiyinxusa lakhe lokugqugquzela ukuthula. Uyazi ukuthi uPapa ungumJesuit. Ingokomoya lamaJesuit ligcizelela indima yomuntu ngamunye, indoda encane, ukuzimela kwakhe ekukhuthazeni iVangeli emhlabeni wonke. UPapa uFrancis, ngicabanga, uyangethemba, eqaphela ukuthi anginawo amathambo ekhabetheni, futhi isisusa sami ngaye sicacile futhi sisobala. UPapa ungitshele ukuthi wayekulungele noma yisiphi isinyathelo ukuze kubusa ukuthula eYurophu. Kuye, uhambo oluya eRussia nase-Ukraine lunomfanekiso omkhulu. Uyaqiniseka ukuthi lolu hambo luzosiza i-Ukraine neRussia ukuba bavumelane ngezwe elinobulungisa kubo bonke.
JLB: Ngesikhathi kunemibhikisho yaseBelarus, wasekela ngokungananazi abantu baseBelarus emzabalazweni wokuthula, inkululeko kanye nobulungiswa. Iqiniso likabani empini yaseRussia e-Ukraine manje? Ucabanga ukuthi zifaneleke kangakanani izimangalo zendawo yaseRussia mayelana ne-Ukraine, okuhlanganisa neNhlonhlo YaseCrimea?
LS: Eminyakeni embalwa edlule, bengizozama ukuphendula umbuzo wakho ngendlela obungathanda ukuzwa ngayo impendulo yami. Kodwa ubuhlobo bami noPapa uFrancis bangisiza ukuba ngiziqonde njengomKristu, noma, uma uthanda, ukuqonda ubuKristu ngokwabo. Ngizokuphendula ngombuzo embuzweni othi: ukuphi uPhapha ngodaba lokubhujiswa kwemibuso yamaPapa, odabeni lokunqotshwa kweRoma nguGaribaldi noVictor Emmanuel? Noma uJesu Kristu nomphostoli uPetru babekuluphi uhlangothi endabeni yokuwa kweJerusalema ngo-70? Iphuzu lami ukuthi ubuKristu bunjalo abuyiphenduli imibuzo ye-geopolitics. Kunalokho, akuwona amandla obuKristu. Ukubheka ubuKristu njengokushisekela izwe akuyona ingxenye yevangeli. Angisho ukuthi umuntu angabi ngumuntu othanda izwe lakhe, ngisho nje ukuthi inkolo yobuKrestu angeke ingene odabeni lokushisekela izwe kanye nezimfuno zesizwe. UbuKristu busebenza ngemibuzo yaphakade - ngisho nalapho uMhlaba ngokwawo kanye nesimiso sonozungezilanga ngeke kube khona. Ngakho-ke, abaningi abamqondi uPapa, bafuna ukumbona njengosopolitiki, njengoba nje abaningi besikhathi Sakhe babona kuKristu. Ngokudumala Ngaye njengosopolitiki, abanye abantu bayamkhaphela, abanye bayamphika, kanti abanye bakulungele ukumbethela esiphambanweni. Ake sibheke uPapa njengomshumayeli weVangeli, hhayi njengosopolitiki.
[Leonid Sevastianov kakade wanikeza umbono wakhe siqu mayelana nempi, esho ukuthi ngokombono wobuKristu, ukuyisekela kuwukuhlubuka. Futhi ngo-Agasti 30, 2022, iVatican ikhiphe isitatimende eyayiqukethe: “Mayelana nempi enkulu yase-Ukraine eyaqalwa iRussian Federation, ukungenelela kukaPapa Francis kucacile futhi akungabazeki ekuyigxekeni njengengalungi ngokokuziphatha, engamukeleki, enobuqaba, engenangqondo, enyanyekayo futhi ehlambalazayo.”]
I-JLB: Uhlale uphawula ku-TASS, ebonwa phesheya njengomunye wezinkulumo-ze zaseKremlin. Kungani ubambisana nale midiya ethile?
I-LS: Kunezikhungo zezindaba ezi-3 kuphela e-Russia: i-TASS, i-RIA Novosti ne-Interfax. Abekho abanye. Angikwazi ukuthwala umthwalo kwabanye. Ngingaphendula mina kuphela. Kuphela ngoba azikho izisusa zezombusazwe kanye nenkulumo-ze yezombangazwe emazwini ami.
JLB: Wazi uPatriarch Kirill isikhathi eside, kusukela eseyiMetropolitan yaseSmolensk. Buyini ubudlelwano bakho naye manje? Ungathini ngebinzana likaPapa Francis ukuthi ungumfana we-altare likaPutin? Buyini ubudlelwano bakho noMetropolitan Hilarion kanye nenhloko entsha ye-DECR Vladika Anthony (Sevryuk) manje? Ingabe uhlale uthintana nabo?
LS: Ngazana noPatriarch Kirill kusukela ngo-1995. Ngathunyelwa uMetropolitan Alimpiy Gusev, usihlalo weRussian Old Believers Orthodox Church, ukuba ngiyofunda eMoscow Theological Seminary ngeMetropolitan Kirill. Ngesikhathi esifanayo, uPatriarch wangithumela eRome eGregorian University, ngaya khona ngo-1999 ngomphakathi wezindela eBose, esenyakatho ye-Italy. Ngafunda eRoma ngemali yalo mphakathi ngaphansi kokuqondisa komholi wawo u-Enzo Bianchi. Ngabe sengiqhubeka nezifundo zami eGeorgetown University eWashington ngomfundaze we-American Bradley Foundation. Ngasebenza eYunivesithi yaseGeorgetown njengomfundisi, kanye naseBhange Lomhlaba. Lapho ngibuyela eMoscow ngo-2004, ngangingafuni ukusebenzela uMnyango Wezindaba Zangaphandle WaseMoscow Patriarchate (DECR). Ngalesi sisekelo, sibe nokungaqondi kahle noMetropolitan Kirill, owabe esehola lesi sakhiwo, esingase sithi, sisaqhubeka nanamuhla (ukungaqondi kahle). Ngo-2009, ngemva kokukhethwa kukaMetropolitan Kirill njengoMbhishobhi kanye nokuqokwa kukaMetropolitan Hilarion (Alfeev) njengosihlalo we-DECR, ngasungula futhi ngahola inhlangano. Gregory Isisekelo Semfundiso Yenkolo, exhase imisebenzi ye-DECR nokudalwa nokuvuselelwa kwezakhiwo nezakhiwo, ze-All-Church postgraduate and doctoral studies, kanye nemisebenzi yayo yansuku zonke. Ngenxa yokuthi angizange ngisekele ukugqashuka kwenhlanganyelo namabandla aseGreece ngo-2018 futhi ngangicasulwe isimo sengqondo esingafanele se-Patriarchate yaseMoscow maqondana namakholwa Amdala, uxhaso lwamiswa ngakithi, ngase ngishiya isisekelo. Ngo-2018, i-World Congress of Old Believers emlandweni yenzeka, lapho ngethula khona umqondo we-World Union. Lo mqondo uvunywe yiCongress, futhi ngo-2019 ngakha inhlangano ye I-World Union of Old Believers. Kusukela ngaleso sikhathi, ngaphakathi kohlaka lwale nhlangano, ngibambe iqhaza ekuvikeleni nasekukhuthazeni amakholwa amadala emhlabeni. Ngihileleke kakhulu naseRussia ekukhuthazeni inkululeko engokwenkolo yawo wonke umuntu wasekhaya. Ngokuqondene noVladyka Anthony (Sevryuk), inhloko entsha ye-DECR, ngimazi kahle, kusukela ngesikhathi esengumfundi. Ngeke ngisho lutho olubi ngaye. Ngimazi kusuka ohlangothini olungcono kakhulu. Akazange enze lutho olubi kimi noma kunoma ubani engimaziyo.
JLB: Kungani uPapa ehlose ukuvakashela eMoscow kuqala, hhayi i-Kyiv? Uke wazama ukuxoxa naye ngokuthi kungenzeka yini ukuthi ufike e-Kyiv kuqala, bese udlulisela isikhundla seziphathimandla zase-Ukraine e-Kremlin, hhayi ngokuphambene nalokho?
LS: Ngicabanga ukuthi kuPapa umyalelo wokuvakasha awubalulekile kakhulu: ufuna nje ukuxhumanisa ukuvakashelwa kwezihloko ezimbili ngaphakathi kohlaka lohambo olulodwa. Okungukuthi, ukuya e-Ukraine naseRussia, futhi kungakhathaliseki ukuthi ungena eRussia evela endaweni yase-Ukraine noma, ngokuphambene, e-Ukraine esuka endaweni yaseRussia, lokhu akubalulekile kuye. Kubalulekile ukuthi lokhu kuvakasha okubili kube yingxenye yohambo olufanayo ukuze kugcizelelwe ukugcinwa kokuthula kanye nesimo sobuntu salolu hambo. Ngicabanga ukuthi amaRussia ngeke acasuke uma endizela eRussia esuka e-Ukraine.
JLB: UPhapha uwulalela kangakanani umbono wakho? Kubaluleke kangakanani kuye?
LS: UPapa ulalela noma yimuphi umbono. Futhi kuye, umuntu omncane, umbono wakhe obaluleke kakhulu. Lokhu ngikubonile kokwami. Umbono wami ngaye, ngiqinisekile ngokuphelele ngalokhu, awubalulekile kunombono wabantu base-Ukrainian noma labo baseBelarus axhumana nabo.
JLB: Umhlambi wase-Ukraine usabela kabuhlungu emazwini nasezenzweni zikaPapa, ukholelwa ukuthi wenza lokhu kulandela inqubomgomo ye-Kremlin. Ingabe upapa ubona usongo lokulahlekelwa umhlambi wase-Ukraine ngokudlala ngothando neMoscow?
LS: Maqondana nalokhu okuthiwa “ukuqoma” uPhapha, ngithanda ukukukhumbuza futhi ukuthi uPhapha ukhuluma ngeVangeli, hhayi ngepolitiki. Khumbula ukuthi abafundi beza kanjani kuKristu futhi bamtshela ukuthi abaningi base besukile kuYe ngenxa yamazwi Akhe angalungile ngokwepolitiki? UKristu wabe esebabuza: “Nani, anifuni yini ukungishiya na? Kungaleso sikhathi lapho uPetru ephendula ngokuthi abanandawo abangaya kuyo, ngoba unguKristu. UPapa ukhuluma ngeVangeli. Futhi ingeyawo wonke umuntu, amaRussia nama-Ukrainian. UKristu walengiswa esiphambanweni, futhi ngakwesokunene nangakwesokhohlo Kwakhe kwakukhona amasela. Kodwa omunye wabo wathi ufuna ukuba noKristu, omunye wathi akafuni. Nansi indaba ngoPapa. UPapa akanakuqhathaniswa noGeorge Washington, izelamani zeMaccabee, iNkosana uVladimir, uMonomakh noma iNkosi uStanislaus. UPapa angaqhathaniswa noKristu kuphela. Futhi ukubuza ukuthi ukuziphatha Kwakhe kuhambelana noKristu noma cha, ukubuza umbuzo, ngabe uKristu wayezokwenzani esikhundleni Sakhe. Akubona abaphilile abadinga udokotela, kodwa abagulayo. IVangeli lonke limayelana nakho!
JLB: Uyavumelana nesitatimende sikaPapa sokuthi umufi uDaria Dugina uyisisulu esimsulwa sempi? Ubumazi yini uDaria lapho eyikholwa lelinye lamasonto eSonto Lobu-Orthodox LaseRussia? Kwenzeka kanjani ukuba abe omunye wabasakazi bempi?
LS: Yazi ngicela ukuphendula amazwi kaDaria ngenkulumo kaGodfather kumngcwabi owafika ezocela uBaba ukuthi abulale izigebengu ezidlwengule indodakazi yakhe. Umngcwabi uthe kuzokwenziwa ubulungiswa. Wabuza uGodfather: ingabe kulungile ukubulala labo abangakabulali muntu? Ngisho neTestamente Elidala lalinomthetho othi-tit-for-tat. UDaria akazange abulale muntu, akazange ahlanganyele empini emgqeni ongaphambili. Ngakho-ke, ukufa kwakhe akulungile. Ngalo mqondo, uyisisulu esingenacala sempi. Yilokhu okwashiwo uPhapha. Bengingamazi uDaria. Ngaphambi kokufa kwakhe, bambalwa kakhulu abantu ababemazi. Akazange abe nethonya elibalulekile emibonweni yaseRussia.
